I am a Robert Greene fan. The 48 Laws of Power, The Art of Deduction, The 33 Strategies of War (I don't have the one he wrote with 50Cent) are all displayed prominently on my bookshelves, and the rough condition each one of them are in would indicate that I've read them several times.
So, it comes as no surprise that I am feeling a bit cynical this evening, and for that, I apologize; I think that my internal struggle with cynicism thanks to Greene may have influenced this week's intellectual proposition. I shall let you be the judge, however, as to whether or not this was a good or a bad thing.
As many of you know, and if you didn't you do now, I am not that into people. There are a select few I would ever willingly share time with, and more often than not, it shows.
Now, before I go any further, I feel it pertinent to actually define what I mean when I say "people."
So, here it goes, for lack of a more...academic definition:
PEOPLE: Individuals who are not kids or animals, mostly over the age of 25 and under the age of 80.
And there you have it--the definition of people in the world of Cassie Bunje.
This rather pessimistic and certainly asocial view of the human race is not something with which I was born, however, I feel that it began cultivating itself at a rather young age. My childhood was not one to be looked back upon wistfully, and it didn't really get much better as I grew into young adulthood. This was due, almost entirely, to my interactions with and observations of, you guessed it--people. In fact, until I became a teacher, I held out very little hope that I would ever be able to gaze upon the face of another human being without a hint of scorn, mistrust or distaste. True story. Truth be told, and this is not me being dramatic at all--you could probably accurately say that teaching saved my soul. More on that later.
So, in my re-reading today ( I was searching for a quote from Greene and forgot which book it was in--so I skimmed them all), I happened upon an interesting quote.
This week, I would like you to read and reflect on this quote and tell me what you come up with in terms of whether or not you agree with what it says, and what it even means. As always, qualify your answer with an anecdote of personal experience to help illustrate the point you are making.
Here it is:
"Niceness is a decision. It is a strategy of social interaction; it is not a character trait."
Have fun, my pretties...
I’ve always considered myself somewhat of a cynic. I lose my faith in humanity on a day to day basis. Humans are greedy and self-serving, plain and simple. But there’re still people that can make it all worth it, some days. Some people are just incredibly kind-hearted, and will go to great lengths to help other people. And they choose to do so. But what do they do it for? Well, there are certainly some who’d like to say, “Man, do you remember that time I saved all those orphans from that fire? Because that was all me. And I did it because I love orphans.” There are some who do it because it makes them feel good. Either way, being nice can be a cool thing. But it’s still a choice. People will always decide whether or not they want to save some burning orphans. But as a social strategy? Haha! Please! Wait…
ReplyDeleteOh my.
Damn humans! (as I shake my fists at the heavens) Haven’t I lost faith in you enough as it is! Well, being nice is a social strategy for many. Even for me. I’m pretty sure I’ve been nice to make things easier on myself, and make people like me. But it’s natural though! I promise! Or maybe it isn’t. I think I’ve hardwired myself to be nice because 1) it does make me feel good. I’ll look back and think “I was nice that one time. Yeeaaaahhhh.” But 2) I’m pretty sure I’ve been nice so I would be more socially acceptable, even if I wasn’t aware. Like I said, being nice is kind of hardwired into my daily behavior, and now that I don’t intend on acting nice solely for the benefit of social acceptance, I feel a bit better. But I’m looking back and thinking of all the things I’ve done so other people would think I’m a kind and respectable young gentleman, who likes to go out of his way to be nice (and save orphans in his spare time).
Okay. I’ve thought of a third reason for being nice. Occasionally I’ll end up having extreme amounts of patience and understanding with people who aren’t treated with that respect by everyone else. And let me tell you, it’s hard. These people can be a real pain in the ass, but I’ll try to work with them and be nice to them, just so they’ll have an easier time understanding whatever it is I’m helping them with. I’m trying to think of a way to categorize this under reasons one or two, but I can’t. I don’t do it for a good feeling, and I don’t do it for social recognition. So what the hell do I do it for? The other person? Nooooo. That’s impossible! Me, a human being, able to do something solely for another person? That’s just plain absurd! I’m going to go now and think about why we’re all terrible people, without the capacity to be completely selfless. And then I’m going to be nice to everyone so they think better of me. That’s a social strategy, if you didn’t know.
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ReplyDeleteTo start off, I would like to say that I absolutely love Robert Greene. I read The Art of Seduction (Not the Art of Deduction Bunj) and it was one of the greatest non-fiction books I’ve ever read. Laws of Power and Strategies of War are currently on my reading queue. But back to the quote…
ReplyDeleteLet me start of with the first part, “Niceness is a decision”. Speaking from personal experience, being nice can be hard sometimes. Prime example, being with my grandparents. I appreciate Bunje’s definition of “real” people being under 80, because let’s be honest, when people turns 80, they go pretty nuts. When I was younger, being nice to my grandparents was natural. They treated me like a little kid, which was suitable, because I WAS a little kid. At the age of 17, being spoken to like your a child is like hearing nails on a chalkboard; infuriating. As a got older, there was an increasing amount of effort that needed to be applied to be nice to my grandparents. So what did I end up doing? I just stopped trying. I tell off my grandparents now, especially when they decide to be elders and “all-knowing”. The most infuriating thing my grandparents say is something along the lines of “When we were young we _____, therefore you should _______”. As you can probably assume, I tend to avoid them as much as possible. Don’t give me flack though, just because you may adore your fragile little grandparents, it doesn’t mean do don’t feel the same way about someone else. Perhaps it’s a teacher, or perhaps a sibling, or maybe an ex, or maybe an arch-rival. You find it hard to be nice to at least one person in your life.
“But I’m nice to everyone...” Shutup!
Niceness is “a strategy of social interaction”. Was it Emerson or Thoreau that said philanthropy was not really an act of kindness, but a self serving way of showing off to others? Being nice is like being a philanthropist. It puts you in a light of kindness and generosity, but really, there is a much more tainted and strategic motive for your actions. It takes effort to be nice, but I’m not saying it’s impossible to be nice to everyone. Sure you could be nice to everyone in theory, but it’s not out of the kindness in your heart. It is not natural to be universally nice and pleasant, it’s actually quite difficult, and Robert Greene backs me up (“it is not a character trait”). Having read The Art of Seduction, I know the remarkable power of your attitude towards other. Sure, in this case it’s getting people to like you instead of getting them to sleep with you, but in a way it’s the same thing. When your “nice” to someone, there is something you want in return. It might be respect, reputation, a favor, a relationship/friendship, but it is something. For those who are still not convinced thinking, “No, I’m just naturally nice”, you have yet to see the unconscious motives behind your own actions. Positive connections (friendships or relationships) are a very valuable thing. Some of you may be willing to put in the hard work to impress others, but the rest of us (like Bunje and I) would rather be openly scornful of others. Why? Because “Niceness is a decision”, and it is a quite difficult one.
The more I re-read this quote the more I realized that I don't completely agree with it. At first I read it and was like "wow this is great so insightful and true." Then I thought, well I agree completely except for "it is not a character trait." I feel this way because at least in my experiences with people if find that people have varying degrees of "niceness" in them. We all know people who are generally rotten or generally friendly and pleasant to be around, but I don't think that the people who are generally just choose to be so. There may not be a "characteristic " of niceness but I would agree that a tendency to be nice or kind or considerate does or does not exist in everyone.
ReplyDeletePersonally I don’t spend conscious time deciding whether or not to be nice to someone. If I meet a person I can confidently say that I am nice to them, if after the fact I find that they are a terrible person and do things that I am adamantly opposed to, then my next interaction is going not going to be as understanding as the first.
For example over the weekend I spent three days in Atlantic City with the New Jersey All Sate choir. This choir is comprised on over three hundred people of which I knew previously four. However I interacted with a pretty good amount of them in a very kind way, even more so than usual id have to say. And they always responded to me in the same kind fashion as I treated them. Conversely I've gone to band competitions and acted in the same kind way as I had in All State, however on several occasions the other bands were just outright rude.
From both of these situations I have deducted that people do have set tendencies on how they act toward others. And first impressions I feel like are a pretty good judge of what you tendency is simply because absolutely changing your tendency when you meet people is a lot of work and in my experience people don't completely change who they are when they meet someone.
I've realized that my example actually supports the quote however I feel like the quote itself is actually contradictive.
The first part of the quote is not necessarily supportive of the second part only because the word "decision" implies consciousness, and I know for sure that I don’t consciously decide to be nice to people.
ReplyDeleteOk so I just verbalized this whole point to my mother and I’m going to try to do it again here.
You can judge the tendency of a person based on how they act when you first meet them because the situation is unbiased, you know nothing about them and they know nothing about you, this first interaction very effective in gauging the natural tendency of a person. If niceness was a decision every initial interaction anyone ever had with another person would be very pleasant, however I can say that from personal experience that this is not true because I have had initial interactions with people that were entirely unpleasant. Furthermore a persons initial interaction with someone would be how they are because if you are a generally nice person your not going to go out of your way to “decide” to be mean or rude and if your generally nice your not going to go out of your way to “decide” to be mean. It would be too much work for a person to just “decide” to be different that what they are and generally people aren’t going to go out of their way to make a change like that because its simply too much work. So you don’t decide to be nice, you have a natural tendency to be nice to others when you interact with them.
Of course individuals do effect how we act or react in situations which is why you wouldn’t use any reaction or action toward a person who you’ve known for a long time because too much effects how you view them.
Wow… I thought I was a cynic when it comes to people, but you guys have me feeling a strange desire to actually stand up for humankind.
ReplyDeleteDon’t get me wrong…I know people suck. We cheat. We lie. We steal. We destroy. And most of the time we do it all for selfish gain. As a species, we are perfectly imperfect. But what sets me apart from the more severe people-haters out there is that I believe in us. I have faith that we are more than just those imperfections, that we are capable of being more than just nice-because-I-want-something-from-you. Sure, people use niceness as a tool to get what they want, but not all people all the time. Selfishness is often the most prominent trait among people. However, I do believe in the existence of true niceness. Naive? Maybe. Unjustifiable? Absolutely not.
I will admit that most of the niceness that transpires in daily interactions is purely superficial. You act congenial so people will like you. You tell your brother that you like his new haircut hoping he’ll give you a ride to the mall later. When we act nice, we put on a mask. When we are nice, we shed that mask to reveal true selflessness. Let me be clear. This true selflessness I speak of is not a common occurrence. It doesn’t come around very often, but I will stand firmly in my belief that it does exist.
Haven’t you ever done something for somebody just for the sake of making them happy? Haven’t you ever sacrificed your own good for the good of someone else? No incentives, no motives, just good old-fashioned…love? When you care about someone, you stop trying to act nice or look nice to them, and you start being nice. Not because you want something from them, but simply because you recognize that their happiness supersedes your own. And if you say there is some deeper selfish desire underneath the sacrifices we make for the people we love, I say you don’t know the full capacity of love.
I partly agree with the definition of niceness as both a decision and an incentive. But for different reasons. As far as niceness being a character trait, I think this extends only to the ability to act nice. Thus niceness is simply a tenant of willpower. A prime example of this would be—of course—parents. I swear, I try to be nice to them, but they just make me so damn mad sometimes! Whether intentional or not, the anger and irritation they instill in me makes it almost impossible to treat them with “niceness”. It’s like the Hulk. He’s tries to keep his cool, but once the clothes tear off and the muscles come out, there’s no turning back. Niceness equals willpower. Try telling a fully transformed Incredible Hulk to be “nice.” I rest my case.
I think I wrote Deduction as a Freudian slip!! I think writing Seduction made me feel weird. Oh, wait--nope. S and D are next to each other. Damn, Just a typo, not a conditioed psychological response. Crapple.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI’d like to agree that niceness is a decision…well I wouldn’t LIKE to but I’ve seen so much proof of it…The smiles sewn on teen girls, phony conversations between adults, people faking a polite manner just to get ahead... Regardless of whether or not it is right or wrong, the “decision” to be nice at strategic times pervades in our society. However, I must say that this is not always so. In my life I have met people of indelible grouchiness and also of genuine kindness.
ReplyDeleteWhen I was twelve and first learning how to play tennis, I was in a class with a little red-head girl named Amy. We eventually became friends through the tennis clinic, but I didn’t know much about her, besides my own assumptions that she was twelve too. My Nana who transported me to and from tennis would refer to her as “the nice red-head girl”. It wasn’t until weeks later that I actually learned her name, and that she wasn’t twelve, but fifteen. It still baffles me that she had the ability to look beyond our age difference and accept me as one of her friends when even today I have the condescending tendency to look down at girls only a year younger than me with superiority. She was nice. But the story doesn’t stop there.
We went to a tennis camp together at Penn State for a week and had intended to room together. Our plans were ruined when a girl named Amber refused to switch rooms for no other reason than to be a bitch (for lack of a better word). She was disgustingly self-absorbed, rude, and couldn’t say one thing without an attached insult towards someone. She was your typical movie star mean girl, clad with the most undesirable traits including her trademark malevolent smirk. I wasn’t the only girl to think this way; the whole camp avoided her presence and the whole camp would curse the very mention of her name… the whole camp except Amy. Amy had every reason to hate her, every reason to join in with the rest of us, but she didn’t. Not because it benefitted her in any way, not to put on some kind of façade for anyone else, just because she didn’t want to. She was too nice.
That’s really all there is to say. I could go along and run with the several examples I have of humanity that embody this very quote, or I could stand tall with the one reason I know to knock it down. There are people who are purely nice just like there are people who are purely grouchy. And just like those, there are people who aren’t necessarily nice but can act it at times. I try to see the good in everyone, and I think my older sister taught me that, who I just realized could serve as another example. She was horrendously bullied in school and suffered depression, but she could never speak ill of the people who had caused her the most pain because it simply isn’t her way. And I want to be able to say that it’s not mine either.
George - I hope you aren't completely serious when you say that you tell off your grandparents because that makes me sad :(. But on a more serious note, it was Thoreau. And though I could agree with you that philanthropy is driven by selfishness, I think you need to have more faith in people..it doesn't fit everyone, it really doesn't.
ReplyDeleteRachel - Thank you :). You took whatever you had to refute the quote and I suppose that's what I did too. You made an excellent point about niceness being willpower, however I think the hulk would more fittingly connect to the sustaining of violence as being willpower.
Cole - I like how you evaluated your "niceness"...and you were honest! That's always good. In the last paragraph you said that in some cases you help other people without any gain, but at the same time you said that you act nice to benefit yourself (sometimes). I guess what could be concluded here is that it differs for everyone! Kinda what I said. Kinda. Or that there is some truth in it, but not completely. Okay i'm going to stop rambling now, bye.
Often times, we as humans are categorized into categories: Coke and Pepsi people, socialist and communist people, morons and geniuses, and alas “nice” people and “mean” people. In the grand scheme of life, these categories however are meaningless. Humans as a whole are a pitiful bunch, filled with so many flaws it would be impossible to keep track. In my opinion, those so called people-pleasing, altruistic individuals are perhaps the most selfish people to roam the Earth. Individuals that are often categorized as a ‘good’ person, usually have secret motives behind their generous motives. As a result, I truly believe that niceness is a social strategy used to gain something from someone else.
ReplyDeleteNiceness is a manipulative strategy in which one does a good deed for someone then later convinces that person that that they owe them. The point I’m trying to get to, is one we learned in the early months of AP Government, the political maxim: what have you done for me lately? Individuals base their relationships off of things that people have done for them in the past. I know if someone enlists my help with something, I’m always thinking, “I’ve helped you numerous times, what am I getting out of this?” Often times when people perform generous acts, they are usually doing it because they are going to get something out of it, and in our society it’s easy to get acknowledgement from doing something ‘nice.’ It’s like the media is dying for sappy happy stories, because in reality everyone knows it a bunch of bull. Those individuals that donate thousands of dollars don’t do it because they want to put their money to a good cause (maybe some do but most don’t), it’s because they know that it will increase their positive image. Appealing genuine and nice is a strategy people use to get ahead in life, and once they get ahead, rarely do they look back.
I personally, use niceness to get what I want. If I want something from my parents (money, to go out, clothes etc), I’ll take extreme caution in my attitude and act respectful and nice. Why? Well because I want something from them. Otherwise, I probably wouldn’t put in the effort to be extremely nice. It would be ridiculous to say that people don’t do this because many of us have done this. We’re nice to teachers because we want good grades, or we just want them to be on our good side. Adults are nice to their bosses because they either want a raise, or they really just want to keep their job.
In the end, it’s become common knowledge among the human race that if you want something or want to get ahead, you have to put on your nice pants to get the job done.
Rachel:
ReplyDeleteI love how you can still manage to find hope in the human race. It's refreshing. Olivia, you and I had this conversation in Latin that there are genuinely nice people. But, I didn't want to be a fence sitter, and so I chose niceness to be a decision, because most people aren't genuinely nice. However, I can admit that there are some just plain nice people (see my parents). How they manage to be nice when people give them crap? I don't know. Anyways, I truly admire you taking the path less trodden. Your blog takes a firm stance against the quote, good job.
Olivia:
I understand where you're coming from in your blog, but I can't help but disagree on the part where you say people don't "decide" to be mean or nice. Personally, I know that I'm always like "today's going to be a nice day or a mean day," I don't actually think that but depending on my mood it's usually the way it goes. Most of the time though, when I'm meeting new people, I go out of my way to act nice because I want them to see me in a positive light. So, sometimes I do think people decide whether to be mean or nice.
Connie- I get what your saying about people being fake because they most assuredly are. However i don't really think you example supports your view that niceness is a decision. The girl you used in your example, Amber, I cant help but feel like the reason she was just down right rude was because she simply had no nice tendencies. She could have chosen to be agreeable and nice but she didn't because she isn't nice, and why would it make sense for her to chance her ways, she's probably like that all the time. And as for Amy the reason she wasn't mean wasn't because she chose not to be it was because she just honestly wasn't.
ReplyDeleteNyamekye- No offense but I feel like thinking that way is really sad. I hate to think that when I do nice things for you what you see is me being nice to serve my own secret purposes, because honestly what could I get out of being nice to you?
Rachel- Im glad you also agree that there are people out there who are just genuinely nice, because they do exist, I know people like that .
Cole Smith - Professional Orphan Saver, that should have been your answer to the last blog answer. I can just imagine you in your buff firefighter outfit busting out a door carrying multiple children in each hand while a building collapses. I also like how you act as a God overlooking inferior humans "These people can be a real pain in the ass, but I’ll try to work with them and be nice to them, just so they’ll have an easier time understanding whatever it is I’m helping them with." I'm not busting on you though, I love the style. Keep it up.
ReplyDeleteRachel, you have such a convincing rhetoric in your writing. You argued that sometimes people are nice because they want to be, like they have a natural need to. You call that love, but I call that unconscious motivation. Although I don’t agree with you on the basis of being nice for no reason or motive, I can’t help but to appreciate your persuasive writing.
With Connie’s example of Amy and the “mean girl”, do you ever think that she was just being nice to avoid trouble? Or look better in front of all the other girls? That’s what I took it as when I read the summary of this story, although your probably right, I need more faith in people. Possibly there are rare cases of people being nice “just because”, but for the most part I think that it’s just unconscious motivation that drives a lot of people to be nice. Again, maybe I’m just too cynical.
Olivia - my view is NOT that niceness is a decision. That's why you think my example doesn't support my view...because that's not my view.
ReplyDeleteGeorge - I included the part about her not judging me by my age to show her civility..which further proves why she wouldn't be nice just to look good in front of other people or whatever. I wouldn't use her as an example if she wasn't a person of genuine "niceness".
The way a person treats others can have a major effect on how others treat him. When one treats others cruelly, others treat him with disdain and mistrust. If one treats others with respect, others will treat him with respect in return. This direct correlation between treatment of others and returned treatment is present with any personality.
ReplyDeleteTreating others with niceness (kindness) is a skill, an art form if you will, that must be practiced and mastered through daily training and use. To expediently use niceness, you must have no prejudice for who gets your kindness. For example, I was in my freshman College Prep History class, and this kid was being a royal pain in the tookus to me and the teacher. Luckily the bell rang for lunch, but this punk kept attempting to engage me in a battle of fisticuffs and testosterone rage (which he would have invariably triumphed). He did not have the chance to snatch my participation in a clash of brawn because I continued to show my intellectual prowess by throwing every bashing comment towards my mother, my masculinity, my sexuality, and the presence of my male genitalia into the dust-ridden floors. All. The. Way. To. Lunch. I did not once form a rebut for his claims, just denounced his to me, giving an overall air of showing kindness. Kindness, rather than brash conflict, got me out of that fight. Since I didn’t provoke him, he didn’t attack me, and social balance was kept.
The main point of that story is that the kindness that I showed towards that kid, although it saved my ass, was not genuine. There are three kinds of kindness/niceness: genuine, forced, and respectful. Genuine niceness is when you’re at the mall and you see a good friend of yours and say with an excessive amount of smiling, “Yo. What is up, friend?” (Obviously not said like that). Forced niceness is the type of kindness that comes out when you see a person that you thought was your friend, but really isn’t, and you don’t want to hurt his/her feelings. Instead of your normal greeting, you would say, “Hi.” Plain and simple. Gets the job done. Respectful niceness is when you talk to a person older than you or has a higher rank than you in some kind of chain. You aren’t trying to cover up your true feelings about a person, nor are you super-friendly with him/her, so you cannot greet him the same way you would greet your friend.
Niceness, as Greene said, is a strategy of social interaction based on decision to try to make others treat a person in a way that one would want to be treated. Most people use niceness as a way to get others to treat them with kindness or respect, even if they do not like the other person. So, even though a person can act nice to you or anyone, does not necessarily mean they are a nice person because they may be deceiving you (unless it is your bestie or someone similar. Then you’re good to go.) to make you treat them in a particular way.
To George: I think I said something about how philanthropy usually had a background of self-interest involved in an earlier blog. Although niceness isn't necessarily philanthropy, philanthropy is nice and can easily be corrupted in ways that kindness can also be corrupted to fit a person's agenda. Of course, I realized that there are genuinely nice people that would actually give to charity for self-fulfillment, and I like people that do that kind of stuff.
ReplyDeleteTo Rachel: I answered your rhetorical questions in my head and said, "Yeah. Yup. Yes." The funny thing is, the first person that popped into my head was my mom. I did so many things for her that I can't count in a day, but she also did the same for me. My mom is the most selfless person I know. Unfortunately, her selflessness backfires on her because she neglects herself in the process. Her sacrifices, her selfless deeds, and her love has been imbued upon me and my family to the point that we each do little things to help her in return because we love her. Her niceness now carries over into the rest of my life. So yeah. I think there are people that are genuinely nice, and I didn't even see them right in front of me.
Tom:
ReplyDeleteI like how you mentioned the way people treat others in hopes that they will be treated the same. It's like that little saying we learned in elementary school, "treat others the way you want to be treated." I agree that being kind is sort of an art form. There's an art to appearing genuinely kind, because most times people can tell when someone fakes their niceness. I also love the part when you categorized niceness.
Every time a person asks me, "How've you been?" or, "How's you day been?", I think, does you he/she honestly care? Does he/she really want to know what I've "been up to lately"? My answer is quite simple. No. Whenever I hear these questions asked, I think to myself, "It's not like they actually care, they're just being nice". People you don't quite know all too well ask these questions for conversation starters, not to legitimately be nice towards someone. When a cashier says, "Have a nice day.", to you, they're doing so because it's their job, they're trying to get ahead in their workforce. At least this is how I feel. I've only met a couple people in my life that I thought didn't have a mean bone in their body.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure if niceness is a trait or a decision. I've only met 2-4 people in my life who are "too nice". One of them no longer attends Oakcrest, but, she believed in this perfect world where war shouldn't happen and world hunger would end tomorrow. This is going to end up turning into a rant, but, it's incredibly irritable when you do meet that person who just goes overboard and doesn't understand fact from fiction; their world from reality.
There are a couple people that do legitimately care about other people. They like listening to your problems, or enjoy your company. There are way less people in this category then the other two, but it's a mixture of both categories. It's a trait, and a decision for them.
Tom: Nyamekye said what I planned on saying, but I'll just reiterate it. The first thing that came to mind was the saying we learned when we were anywhere from 5-7. "Treat others the way you want to be treated." Your metaphor is extremely accurate. It's easy to tell when someone is being genuinely nice, and being nice to boost their own ego.
Rachel: I don't believe in our society as a whole because nothing is ever going to change the way a person acts or feels toward other people. One of your opening sentences says it all. "We cheat. We lie. We steal. We destroy. And most of the time we do it all for selfish gain. As a species, we are perfectly imperfect."
Olivia: Your band example is quite interesting. It's used all the time in movies and shows. (Not the actual band example, but with any match between 2 groups of people) The rude people you meet at your competitions may not actually be rude at all. It's just the arrogance and cocky-ness that sets in because it's a competition, you are all fighting to get to the top. Many people have this attitude, but there are the people that are nice and hope that everyone does their best.
From a young age, we are taught by our parents and teachers to “be polite,” and to “treat others the way we want to be treated.” Being kind seems to be a huge lesson when we’re kids, and failing that exam way back when is evident in kids’ behaviors today.
ReplyDeleteThe way I see it, if we have to be taught to be nice, then it can’t be a trait; just like you can’t teach someone to grow red hair when they’re a natural brunette. Sure, they can dye their hair red, but it’s obviously not real; just like one can act nice around people, but it’s not a genuine niceness.
Let’s take for example the other short, blonde girl we’ve all come to adore for her overwhelming kindness and civility. Let me tell you something, friends, IT’S ALL A RUSE. Yes, she has a cute, little chipmunk face, a trusting smile, a soft-spoken voice, and a skinny, boney stature, but once you get past the adorableness, she is evil. Pure evil.
She doesn’t unleash her wrath upon people that don’t really know her. To them, she is the most deferential, kindhearted, warm, sweet person to walk the face of the planet, but they don’t know. They don’t know what’s behind the mask. Around people she’s comfortable with, she’s an abusive, maniacal, twisted, unrelenting dictator with a thirst for blood. Except she’s not a vampire. She just likes to see people squirm and condemn them to eternal discomfort.
I kid you not.
Just like with the other short, blonde girl, I believe all of humanity has a secret agenda that they conceal fervently so that only those close to them are wise to it. Most of us wear masks of politeness that we show to the majority of the world so that we’re not immediately judged; and then there are those people that don’t give a hoot about sparing anyone’s feelings and say what they want, when they want, to who they want. Admit it, you all know someone like that.
Also, admit that you’re all that type of person who’s conservative and obsequious around unfamiliar people or superiors, but around your friends and family, you’re the crazy, perverse freak that they all love, but are secretly terrified of.
So, being nice isn’t a trait. It’s a mask we learn to put on in certain situations, but it’s one we throw one the ground when we’re at ease to reveal our true selves.
Nyamekye: I don't think that I can disagree with a single point you made in your post, it's all completely true. I don't think a single person can say that they're nice simply because that's who they are, there's a motive behind every motion. Personal gain is a very enticing one for being mannerly.
ReplyDeleteGeorge: As always, your post is very..candid. It's also a good embodiment of your point. The sheer frankness of your post has no regard for the feelings of the person who's "naturally nice," which is exactly the point you made about how it's hard to be nice or courteous all the time. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing (though I really don't think you'd care if I meant it as a bad thing), but it's interesting that you're able to explain, prove, and exemplify your point simultaneously.
Olivia: Okay, I get respect your point because yes, first impressions are key, but they're not totally unbiased. If you meet someone next Tuesday and you're completely kind towards them, but their dog just died or their mom was thrown in jail, chances are, they're not going to match the same level of kindness you showed them, but that's not at all indicative of their character. They could be super personable, but just having a bad day. I don't really know where I'm going with this, but I just felt like voicing that. :P
Mimi:
ReplyDeleteNice pants? I used to have a pair of those, but then I outgrew them. Over the years I’ve seen how fake and transparent people can be when it comes to getting what they want, and it’s really turned me off to the whole idea of sucking up. Even though nice pants are sometimes necessary to get what we want, I just hate wearing them. Maybe I have an allergic reaction to the fabric. Or maybe I just need to find the brand that works for me. Am I wearing boot cut when I should be wearing flare? Ok, I stopped making sense a while ago. I really just wanted to keep talking about pants…
Becca:
It’s a good point that something that we’re taught can’t be a natural trait. And about that other blonde whose name shall remain unknown, you’re right: pure evil. It’s funny how people think someone is sweet and innocent, and only the people who know them best know the truth. Sometimes it’s just easy to consider strangers nice, but that’s only because we don’t really know them. I didn’t realize this until that certain sweet and innocent blonde started pushing me off air mattresses and laughing at my general pain and discomfort. True story.
To George: I remember earlier this year when I was reading Atlas Shrugged (terrible book, don’t go out of your way to read it) there was this one part where one of the main guys says (and I’m paraphrasing here) “We aren’t charitable for solely the sake of the other person. Even if we donate just to feel good about ourselves, it completely eradicates the point of charity.” That last part isn’t entirely accurate, considering being nice to feel good about ourselves doesn’t eradicate the point of being nice. But we usually do nice things for some sort of payment, whether it be feeling good or being looked upon as a greater individual.
ReplyDeleteTo Tom: I liked how you divided niceness into three categories. It kind of helps clear these murky waters. I know forced niceness has gotten my ass out of plenty uncomfortable situations. Just one example is indoor soccer last year. This one kid really got on my nerves, so I called him something I don’t care to repeat on here, considering it would blemish my reputation as an orphan saver. Eventually though I forced some kindness, and everything got better.
To Nick: Honestly, I only catch myself thinking if the people care after the conversation. But usually I’ll ask because I’m trying to cross that line of small talk, and start engaging in a real conversation. For the most part (for me that is), these are conversation starters, not nice things I do for people. Unless, of course, I’m trying to fill an awkward silence. Of course, we should learn that silences don’t really have to be all that awkward.
Being nice takes a lot of work for some people, but is natural for others.
ReplyDeleteI hate being a "fence-sitter" but I think it depends on a person
whether or not being nice is a decision or a character trait.
For instance if I ask someone how their days is or something of
the sort, usually it's because I care. If I didn't, I wouldn't ask.
Is this because I am nice, I don't think so. I think that's because I care
about the people I care about. If I help an old lady load her groceries
at Acme, they tell my parents or whoever I happen to be with how
nice of a child I am, but if they really knew me would they say that?
I do know people that seem to br truely nice down to their core and I
wish I could be like them. They live to make other people happy.
What I don't know, however, is if they do this to make themselves
look or feel better, or if they are really these amazing selfless people.
And what is being nice anyways. In my dictionary, which pages are missing from
so I don't know what it is, it says that nice is an adjective and means
pleasant, kind, or amiable. These all seem like plausable ways to describe
a person's character and a way to describe how a person interacts in
social scenes. For the most part in my life I am not pleasant or amiable, but I like
to think I'm kind although many people would think I am none of the above.
But am I nice to only the people I like, yes and no. But the fact of the matter,
I guess the point I've been rambling on to make is that I can choose to be
nice. In my opinion if you can choose what you do it's a decision; if you
do something naturally then it's part of your character: who you are as
a person.
I think that people hide behind a mask of niceness. Some people just seem
too too nice. I have seen who I thought were nice people do not so nice
things, just as I've seen honest people lie and I've seen happy people
cry. Deep down people are just in it for themselves. If that means being nice
or stealing so be it. Now I'm not saying that everyone that is mean is just
as bad as people who steal, but they're similar in their motives.
I never thought that I would not be considered a person. I never thought that my grandparents would not be considered people. I have to admit I’ve never heard of such a view on the definition of “people.”
ReplyDeleteAnyway, on to the topic at hand: niceness. Some people (which may include any homo sapien sapien) tell me that I’m a nice person. Do I believe that I’m a nice person? Sure. I don’t, however, consider myself to be the nicest person I know. I’m the person that, if you don’t know me, may seem like a nice guy. People may receive this impression for one reason: I want them to. Although sometimes I’m afraid that I give off too generous of an impression and I appear soft.
Somewhere along the line I probably witnessed enough “nice” people and saw the respectful recognition that went along with it. They seemed well-liked. I never intend to make enemies and, like I said in a previous blog post, I do care what other people think. The first-impression that I intend to give off is that of a nice guy. This does not mean that I won’t treat you as a nice guy once we become friends. I hope that my current friends consider me a nice guy.
Niceness really is a strategy of social interaction. I sure wasn’t born a nice guy. In fact, I’m certain that if I looked through a window of the past of Daniel Heckmann, I wouldn’t be particularly happy with what I saw. I used to be more insensitive and sometimes hurt others’ feelings. I can’t say that I never hurt anyone’s feelings any longer, but I don’t usually intend to. Being nice not only helps me make friends but it helps me to not get my face pounded in by the jock in gym class.
There are times when niceness is useful, and times when niceness may backfire. Niceness is useful when you’re trying to impress a girl or when you really want that raise. People are more likely to defend you if you’re a nice guy. You’re more fun to hang around with and you feel good helping others out. However, avoid giving off the nice-vibe in the wrong way. A guy looking for a fight might say “This puny, helpless baby can’t defend himself if I so choose to give him a licking.” I’m not sure many bad guys speak like this, but you get the picture. Some puny kids choose to be mean because it makes them seem confident and even threatening, but other puny kids like me choose the “nice” route because it just works best for me.
This blog topic relates to the previous blog topic of “fitting in” or “belonging.” People want to fit in, and being nice is a great social strategy to do so. People are more inclined to “accept” you if you’re nice to them. Everyone likes to have nice people around, unless they’re too nice of course. Niceness is not necessarily a character trait, but it can be a state of mind. The state of mind is achieved through experience. People are nice because the sum of all the outside influences allows the mind to think kind thoughts. Unfortunately this state of mind, this “niceness” cannot always be a good characteristic because the world is generally an unappreciative and insensitive place. Like Muhammad Ali said, “At home I am a nice guy: but I don’t want the world to know. Humble people, I’ve found, don’t get very far.”
To Cole: I always laugh at the reoccurring “orphans” of your blog posts. I couldn’t help but think you had me in mind when you wrote your third reason for being nice. I can tell it’s hard for you to be patient, but I’m sure it gets better with practice. If it is me that is causing you this trouble, I apologize. Anyway, I had the overall same agreement with the quote that niceness is in fact a social strategy.
ReplyDeleteTo Tom: I really like the way you categorize your types of “niceness.” I see all three present in my life. Your categorization of niceness is really well done, but it does imply cynicism. Every use of niceness should be genuine, but the other two are quite real. “Forced” niceness and “respectful” niceness are both used to establish respect, and both are forced because they’re not genuine. The “respectful” niceness is cynical because it acknowledges the evil hierarchy of ethos established from mankind’s weakness.
To Nick: I like how you bring up the subject that Costal talked about in class last year: people say those nice things because it’s polite, not because they actually mean it. I don’t tend to ask people how they’re doing, probably because people would perceive it the same way you do. I do ask friends how they are occasionally, and when I do I mean it. I’m either concerned or just curious about their life. The difference between the genuineness and the commonplace politeness is actually caring. Unfortunately the commonplace politeness is the most common version.
Tom: "Treating others with niceness (kindness) is a skill, an art form if you will,
ReplyDeletethat must be practiced and mastered through daily training and use." is a brilliant
line. I love it. But I don't think I completely agree with it. I don't know how I feel
about it. It most certinly can be mastered through everyday use, but I don't know.
I'm stumped. I'll have to think about this a little more and let you know what I come up
with!
Cole: I loved your little metaphor about the orphans! It made me think about
what people have done importantly in my lifetime. I really couldn't think of
one specific time when someone did something just because they cared. If
someone did save orphans from a raging fire than that would be pretty sweet,
but very rare at the same time.
Mimi: YES! People are in it for themselves. I don't think that every single
person is a selfish bastard, but most people are. The political maxim you used was
perfect and I really wish I would have thought of it first. For the most part,
with me personally I am not a nice person. I tell it how it is, I make rude comments,
curse a lot and blare my crazy "hippie" music, but that's what makes me happy.
Now if my mom asks me to turn my music down I don't do it because she's my mother
I do it because I know eventually I will need something from her in the future. Your post
mostly relate to my life! :)
Oh eighth grade. Reading these blogs reminds me of a time when back in those “wonderful” days, when I thought the world was anything but wonderful. Through the gloom that hovered and loomed like a haze before my eyes, tainting my view of everything with a nasty shadow, I was fairly miserable. Shock crossed my face one day in 8th period science with Mr. Gregger, still my favorite teacher, when the phone rang and I was being sent to the main office. Of course, nobody even bothered “oohing” at me, since that would just be dumb and made no sense if I was the object of it. When he saw my face, he assured me that the main office only entitles good things, and not trouble. So I came in and sat down, panic stricken. I loathed talking to people I didn’t know. The receptionist just smiled and said I had nothing to worry about. Then James Townley came out, smiling, and I felt like I should probably feel better, until the principal came out. Shock. Panic. Terror. Good news, I was the salutatorian. Joy. More shock. In Mr. Muldoon’s eyes, better news, I got to give a speech at graduation. In my eyes, the worst news of my life, I got to speak to two thousand people I didn’t know! When I handed in my first draft with my usual pessimistic touch, Mrs. Garofalo told me, “It made me want to go shoot myself; try to make it happier.”
ReplyDeleteThis, my friends, is how I feel after reading these blogs. Eighth grade Amber agrees wholeheartedly with you. She’s dancing around in her little asylum cell in my head in victory. Most often it’s true. Almost everything is a decision about us. I can think of countless times when I put on a smile to be nice. Honestly, coming from the depths of my heart, it’s rarely to “get ahead.” If you’ve ever read a blog post of mine, you’d know I’m terrified of hurting people’s feelings, but I guess somebody could argue that is a “strategy.” But, whatever, I’m not going to use myself as an example to combat this statement. One little blonde girl’s post already shot that one to hell.
I’m not exactly sure how anybody who denies the possibility of kindness as a trait can really speak, since they have not met all the people of the world to know for sure. Also, it’s probable that nobody else has met Evelyn. She is pure sugar. She’s like the sweetness we all lack concentrated into one tiny little person. Her voice oozes that light and airy cottony niceness we all fake. She is by far the most ridiculously kind person I have ever met. There’s not an ounce of phony to her and not a wisp of condescension. I absolutely adore her. It’s not even possible to truly dislike her, even if you find her to be sickeningly sweet. She’s five foot, with graying dark brown hair and little librarian glasses. She’s never said a cross word.
Before my mom retired they were coworkers. My mother told me a story that for whatever reason, one day in work she said to Evelyn, “I wish I was nicer,” (I second this motion). And you know what Evelyn said back in her angelic honey laced voice?
ReplyDelete“Oh, me too.” I can just picture her little doe eyes widening in agreement.
` Okay, something’s wrong here. Understandably, my mother laughed right in her face. That’d be like Hannibal Lector saying that he isn’t a psycho cannibal (but an awesome one at that). Evelyn had no comprehension of why my mother was laughing and asked what she said. Naturally, my mother told her, “You have to be joking.”
But it was clear in Evy’s face that she wasn’t joking. “Oh no Lynn, I’m mean. I once yelled at my brother.”
More laughter. I laughed too when I heard this story; it’s just absurd. “What did you say?”
As she put her little hands on her hips she said, “Now Jimmy.” More laughter ensued.
Oh sure, because that’s just full of expletives. I can’t truly explain Evy to you properly, you just have to believe me that there are just genuinely nice people out there. Now, my mom is pretty cynical like a good portion of people, and she once told me, “There are no saints.”
So I said, “What about Evy?” And even she had to agree. Kindness is often a choice, but that’s just because most of us don’t have the blessing of being born with it. If Evelyn remembers, “Now Jimmy,” out of all things in her life, she very clearly never had to be taught to be nice. I’ve said more mean things in sixteen years that Evy has in sixty. If you say that niceness is not a trait, you’re calling Evelyn fake. Evelyn couldn’t call somebody fake if she wanted to, and why would she want to want to? She’s nice. It’s possible, I assure you. It’s a trait for her and a choice for us.
Cole: First of all, you’re hilarious. You always have some sort of odd reference, like saving orphans or Acme hookers. Oh God, now I feel like I’m just saying that… But seriously, I agree. I think there are times that we do choose to be nice to benefit ourselves in some way, and other times it’s just natural or hardwired into us to be nice. I feel kind of hardwired to be a certain way too.
ReplyDeleteOlivia: I actually believe that first impressions aren’t the best way of gauging a person at all. I think most people put on a very nice face to somebody you don’t know as a natural instinct so that people don’t get a bad impression of you. I think I do it. The more you get to know me, the less nice I become, unfortunately. Ask Becca. Or just read her blog…
Rachel: Your little love part inspired me so much, that a piece of my pretzel flew backwards. Well, it was partially because I still can’t really chew so I was breaking into tiny pieces, but I was so awe inspired I spaced out and snapped it back. And now it’s gone. And now I will have ants. But, I didn’t really take love into consideration. Isn’t that what love is? Wanting to put somebody else’s happiness before your own? I’m not so sure that makes it a trait, just a trait of love, but still, it is our nature to love, so it should carry over.
Every single afternoon my bus driver says, “Hi, how ya doing honey?” to me and every other person that walks on the bus. Of course, being the polite person I am, I always say hi back. I’m pretty sure not every single bus driver does this when you walk on the bus. I certainly have never had a bus driver that has done this until I met her on my first day of Oakcrest. In fact, I was almost taken aback by it. I don’t think it’s a decision for her to be polite like that. I mean she doesn’t have to say hi every single day. I don’t think anyone would care if she didn’t and I don’t think anyone would think any less of her. So therefore, I think niceness in this situation is a character trait. She may have her moments, she may not, what do I know? But I’m just going to say she’s a nice person. And the “good morning” and the “hi, how are ya” I get every single day” is not just an act.
ReplyDeleteI’ve met people that are truly nice. I wish I could be more like them. Sure, people tell me I’m nice, but I don’t believe them sometimes. I’ve said some things to other people that I’m not proud of. But I never intentionally wanted to hurt someone’s feelings. That’s not the kind of person I am. Even if you’re mean to me, I’ll never be mean to you. In fifth grade, there was this one girl who said some really hurtful and mean things to me. In this case, I chose to be nice to her. I never said any hurtful things back because I’m not a mean person. It was a hard thing to do, but it paid off somehow. She actually started being nice to be after a while, because she said I was always nice to her. I guess this story is all to say, sometimes being nice does help you get what you want.
I do agree with Robert Greene that niceness is a strategy of social interaction. I come across people that are rude and obnoxious almost every single day. But if I’m nice to them, they are probably going to be nice back. All I want is respect. I’m not into the whole selfish desires thing. For example I’m not going to be extra nice to my mom just because I want new shoes. However, some people will be as sweet as sugar to get whatever it is they want. But I also believe that niceness is a character trait. And some people genuinely are sweet as sugar.
Janel: I agree with your statement “Being nice takes a lot of work for some people, but is natural for others.” I’m not sure how anyone can deny there are both types of people. Yeah people suck and are going to play the nice game just to get what they want, but not everyone is like that.
ReplyDeleteRachel: Wow I love what you said about “good old-fashioned love.” I completely agree with you. Making people happy gives me such a good feeling inside. But that’s not because I’m selfish. Knowing that I can put a smile on someone’s face is the greatest reward.
Connie: I try to see the good in everyone as well. I could never say anything mean about anyone even if they are being mean to me. I certainly don’t feel good about what they’re saying to me, but I couldn’t possibly sink to their level. I would never want to hurt someone’s feelings.
The most important facet of our humanness, the thing that makes us, us, is our innate ability to connect with others through our actions. Though maybe not consciously, we are always working to gain a leg up on our opposition. In the hunter-gatherer sense of humans, the fittest survive, and subconsciously we work every day to be the fittest. Of course, it is a bit cynical and to think of our lives as mere competitions, but when you strip away our hard outer crusts of emotion, you come down to a human psychology constructed with the subconscious desire for survival by any means. Kindness is not an inherent sense but a subconscious method to gain an advantage on others.
ReplyDeleteWe can break the human mind into two levels. On the first level are our conscious thoughts, the daily decisions and actions that orchestrate on our day. It is on this level that we outwardly project who we are onto the larger screens of our lives. The second level, however, contains our subconscious thoughts which control our actions at the most basic sense of humanity. The dichotomy between conscious and subconscious actions is a line that is often blurry to the beholder. However, kindness is a trait that falls on both sides of the line. While kindness may often stem from conscious caring, its roots lay deep within the subconscious. Every act of kindness you commit is somehow based on your unrelenting subconscious. This is not to say that some people are not innately more kind than others, however, the inverse is true. Some people are just kind, and that’s the way it is.
While the levels of kindness of people vary greatly, the reasoning for it is constant. We are kind in order to get a leg up on others. While many of us hide behind the smokescreen of kindness to get ahead through being a suck-up, or doing it for personal gain, some are just kind because their conscious mind tells them it’s the right thing to do.
I feel like I’ve always held a cynical view towards. I could tell you a sob story about how my daddy left me and how it shaped my beliefs about the world. But I’d be wasting your time (That was paralipsis to throw in a personal anecdote I guess.) However, my beliefs about other people suck and that’s that. My cynical views about other people though, do not stop me from being kind to them. While I find it easy to find the worst in others, my conscious mind tells me to be kind to everyone. Just remember, next time I smile and wave or make a nice comment, think of my subconscious reasoning or motivation behind it. (Or just wave back)
She can talk to anyone for hours, (which is really annoying when I need to be somewhere) but it’s not because she’s trying to get ahead. Why would you want to get ahead with perfect strangers on the street? And it’s like she indisputably cares. Whenever she talks to someone and something is wrong with them (even a perfect stranger), she will literally worry about that person for days, ask me how I think they are doing, and fidget and pace around the house until she finds out that they are okay. And even after they are okay, she still worries about them. Niceness runs in her blood and there is no way to dilute it.
ReplyDeleteSometimes it annoys me how nice she is. Right now she just asked me if I need more water even though she insisted on getting me a bottle of it ten minutes ago. I just responded with “No, I’m okay. Thanks though.” However, she just crossed the room to grab my half empty water bottle, walked to the kitchen, filled it back up, and just placed it back down next to me. She asks every five to ten minutes if I need anything – it runs like clockwork. Now she’s sitting across the room from me, worrying out loud if there is anything she can do to help random people feel better about their lives. Why? Who knows. She won’t even go to bed until I’m finished my homework, which tends to be pretty late. She has no reason to wake up at the break of dawn like I do every morning, but she is always up, just to say goodbye and wish me a good day as I groggily grumble out the door with not even a full formulated response.
Sometimes I even have to tell her to be meaner because she gets walked all over by some people, but she never listens. No matter what happens, she’s always there putting people way before herself, and I think that’s just her character. It’s not an impulsive choice or a subconscious decision. It’s just who she is.
So does that make me a fence sitter on this specific topic? Yeah, probably. Sorry about that, but my indecisiveness won this battle.
Say it isn't so!!! I never really thought of it but now thinking about it, my niceness might just be a decision, I made some time ago. When I first saw this topic I wanted to immediately refute this quote becoming unknowingly offended. I just felt like that it was questioning the fiber of my personality. I took it personally. But after a day or two of thinking I started to really question it and came to the conclusion that niceness is a decision.
ReplyDeleteI thought for the longest time I was nice because I just deeply care for others and I didn't want anyone to get hurt by anything. I never liked violence, I don't like name calling. And I just usually greet everyone with a smile. I thought it was who I was. A trait that I had unbeknownst to me. However, after thinking about it, I figure there has to be a reason that I became nice. Whether it be that I witnessed/ or took part in, some kind of event that made me not want to make other people feel bad again. Or it be that we saw others being nice and wanted to emulate them. Whatever the reason I now believe that we had to come to this decision on our own because when we were born we didn't understand the concept of "being nice", we had to be slowly introduced to it and then we would decide if we want to become that type of person.
However, though I believe now being nice is a decision that we make, I do not necessarily believe that it is a "strategy of social interaction". Sure there are some people who are nice because in order for people to like them, they have to show a likable side of themselves. However, it just can't be said that all people are nice for their own needs. There are truly genuine people who are nice because they have witnessed something so terrible, or gone through something, that they don't want people to experience a bad feeling. There are those people, even if a few, here and there. But still you can't erase them out out of the picture. I know I'm sticking to both sides but there can be no definite answer if both sides exist. There just can't be a 100% guarantee that people do the things they do because they are trying to fulfill their self- interest because "there are exceptions to every rule". This quote is basically just going against that fundamental rule.
Thinking about it now, I suppose I got offended by the second statement of being nice as a strategy rather than the first. This questioned my motives of having a nice personality, that I'm only doing this to get something in return. Everyone should know thats not true, you could not like me and I'd still be nice to you. It doesn't matter to me, I'm nice because I care, not for myself, but for others and i don't see this as a strategy because it won't necessarily help me obtain anything.
Humans are a bunch of greedy and inconsiderate bastards that will more than often act out of self-interest more than anything else. Now, someone is probably stunned and saying something along the lines of, “That’s terrible, how could someone have such a vulgar and gloomy outlook on society?!” And in response I would say something along the lines of, “Wake the hell up!”, but only after grabbing a hold of them and shaking them furiously. Before those of you who write me off as a cynical jerk go and move onto another post; I would like to assure you that I am not such a jerk, and my view on society is not that terribly grim. However, does believing that society is made up of a bunch of greedy and ignorant fools really make someone a cynical person? I mean if anyone were to seriously analyze the morals of society—I mean delve into the true colors of most people; that person would crawl into the corner, their mind riddled with disgust and their head lying in their hands, and would then go on to wonder despondently about where the world went wrong. The world is not this magical world with fairy tale endings for everyone. Life is hard and is a complete mess for some. If anyone is experiencing this hopeless feeling; it means they are unhappy with their choices and life. It means they aren’t living out the things that make them happy.
ReplyDeleteNow what does this have to do with this quote? The answer is what you make it out to be, but for me it gives context into the world we live in; it sets the stage for those who decide to put on an act by smiling and being nice. Humanity as mentioned is not composed of a particularly chipper and amicable majority; rather many could be considered worthless, vile, and overall despicable human beings. To attempt to escape the harsh reality of the world and to try to beat nature; we make the choice to be nice. Not because it gives us any particular gain; well maybe it does in some cases (More on that to come), but because it gives a sense of satisfaction and good feelings that distract us from the throes of living in a society with a bunch of terrible people. It paints a cascading image over the dark and gloomy. Every act of niceness or kindness is a wavy and colorful brush stroke over the dull and dreary canvas that is humanity. Now, this view almost seems depressing and I will once again make clear that I am not trying to be depressing rather realistic and straightforward.
We are nice to accomplish three things collectively as fallible and self-fulfilling beings. The first of which as noted up top, is to distract us from the bleak realities of society. The second is to make us feel better about ourselves, to achieve a certain level of self-satisfaction. If we give kindness, we feel better about ourselves as fellow human beings; we are trying to beat the conventions of nature. Perhaps the cruel realities that plague us on a consistent basis as a race could be somewhat diminished if we can make another being feel better. This is a great act of kindness, but it is a choice. We could choose to come off as belligerent and despicable individuals as I did in my opening paragraph, or we can choose to be caring individuals who show kindness and niceness on a consistent basis. Niceness is affected by various conditions and the mood we are subjected to on any occasion. We choose to be nice, like we choose to display any other emotional force. The third reason niceness is displayed is more devious and not too common. This is to be nice in order to gain something such as an advantage or something materialistic. This is essentially manipulation of human beings; we like when people are nice to us, because it can be a rare occurrence. These people take advantage of that weakness and as a result niceness is committed to gain something. This is a bit rarer than any other cause but this has to be considered in the niceness pool.
ReplyDeleteOn many occasions I am nice because my conscious defaults to niceness just to make a situation easier, even if I detest the situation. Niceness makes life a bit easier to get through; it obliterates many of the situations that would normally halt us in our tracks. It makes things easier to deal with. Niceness also gives me hope that life isn’t as bad as advertised. It’s hard to give any significant example of me using niceness, because I have built it into my life. I chose to do this.
I’m not cynical, I‘m being real; I’m simply displaying life as it is. To say the world is a poor place is mostly accurate; so many tragedies happen every day, so many hardships are endured. But the world has a few bright spots and these cannot be discounted. This is the niceness gleaming through; those vibrant streaks that penetrate the bleak canvas of society.
There is a thing out there called being “nice.” Being “nice” is what you do to get what you want. It is sucking up to a teacher when you walk into class late to avoid punishment. It is a politician talking about how he supports the art as a patron in order to get votes. It is a robber who is distracting the girl at the cash register at your local 7-eleven while his friend stuffs food in his pockets. It is anything but truly sincere.
ReplyDeleteNow, please refrain before you say, “But Mike, can’t I just be kind out of the goodness of my heart?” There are things out there like being kind, being a gentleman or a lady, or being passionate about people that are what we used to consider being nice. However, in this day and age, the word “nice” has lost its meaning. It has become so overused that if you told someone that they were being nice, the word would have no effect. For all of you who read Autodidactic already, it is like the word awesome. That dead horse has been beaten for far too long and far too strenuously to have any true meaning. Therefore, I believe it safe to categorize the word “nice” as a sarcastic word.
Trust me though, there are kind people out there. These people put others in front of them whenever they can and are there to be personal parachutes for those around them. Without these people, disasters such as Hurricane Katrina and the death of a loved one would be so unbearable that nobody could ever recuperate from them. Honestly, there are not enough of these kind people in the world, but they DO exist.
The “nice” people in the world are not necessarily bad though. Why shouldn’t a person be able to gain something in life? Plus if they make others feel good about themselves in the process (even if they’re remarks are insincere) aren’t they still creating a positive attitude in others and the world? These people often become the movers and shakers in the world through their process of being “nice” and therefore allow the world to revolutionize in a way that is better for all. We couldn’t thrive without these people. These were the type of men who shaped our country during the Revolution. John Adams was a man who constantly sweetened his way through a conversation or a debate. He is arguably one of the most influential men in American history due to his ability to get all the colonies on board with the Revolution.
So, I think it’s safe to say that being nice does not mean that you are sincere. It doesn’t mean that you are a cruel person that is only adding to a cruel world. I don’t ever think that I could be one of those kind people out there, however I do not plan on using insincere speech to harm another, only to one day better the world and all those in it.
~Michael Giovinco
Connie – I really enjoyed reading your blog. It’s nice to know there are other genuinely nice people in this world like Amy and your sister. It really surprised me when you said Amy was fifteen when you were twelve and she was still nice to you. I knew right then that she was a nice person, haha. There are plenty of those Ambers in this world today, but it’s nice to know that there are a few Amys around to combat those nasty drama-queens.
ReplyDeleteRachy – Your post this week was particularly impressive to me this week. I couldn’t agree more with your fourth paragraph (“Haven’t you ever done something for somebody…capacity of love”). It was said very beautifully said and so very true. Love comes from having true niceness and caring, not just acting the part.
Amber – Your story about Evelyn was so sweet and adorable. I could picture her after your description. But I mostly wanted to say that your parting line really stuck with me. Some people are just genuinely nice because it’s in their character, but for the masses it’s a decision or a learned behavior. I wrote about this in my post as well, but yours was very well said.
Okay, when I first asked Dominique what the blog was this week she naturally asked me, do you believe niceness is a decision or a character trait, and quite quickly I blurted out character trait. However we talked about it and she mentioned some great points for the opposing side.
ReplyDeletePeople choose to be nice to make friends; which makes sense. If I want to be your friend I’m going to be nice to you and that’s my decision. If I want something I’m going to be nice in order to get it, makes sense as well. But I just don’t know. I can’t buy into this. Yes it all makes sense but I think what I believe is what I blurted out to Dominique when she first asked me this question, you’re suppose to go with your gut right? My gut believes niceness is a character trait. Either you have it or you don’t and it’s really that simple. It’s who doesn’t have it that must fake it; it becomes a decision for them now. They must decide whether or not they want to become your friend or not. And they decide when they need something from you and when to turn that lovely charm on, but probably not so lovely anymore after it becomes a decision. However there are genuinely nice people out there.
Maybe this is the romantic in me talking but there are people simply born nice. They like making people happy just because. Not for self fulfillment or any type of material gain, they are just nice. These are the people that see something on the floor and pick it up and throw it in the trash even though they have no idea who put it on the ground in the first place. The people who say thank you when the lunch lady slops on possibly the nastiest food they may have ever had in their life. The people who hold the door for that person walking behind them in Wawa. The people who let you go first in line. The people who let you have the last cookie. The people that help you and genuinely just care. They are sincerely nice people. They don’t get an award for picking up your trash or saying their please and thank yous, they do it just because. This is a trait that you’re either born with or not. If not, better hope you’re good at faking it.
I grew up in a house where being nice to other people was very important. It was taught to me by my father and my mother. Even though they may not be nice to us all the time, they kept their kind image when around others. They passed this ideal down to all of us, including me. My dad taught me that if you were nice to people, they would be nice back and I would never have problems with anyone in life. I am not saying that I am always nice, but for the most part I am. It isn’t for a specific reason, I am not nice so I get things or have people favor me. I do it out of respect. If I am nice to you, I respect you. I think it makes for a better world if everyone was just nicer to each other. Even though that sounds silly and even I am not always nice, I would like to believe that is true. (And if I am a complete jerk, I do it out of love. I hate no one, even though it may seem like I do sometimes.)
ReplyDeleteBut still it was not necessarily a trait that I was born with. I learned it over time from my parents and decided that being nice would be apart of my personality. You CHOOSE to be nice to people, it is not like you come into this world and are just nice. It is something that you absorb from the environment around you. As a baby you do not know the difference between nice or mean. But as you grow up, you can slowly discover how to decipher between the two. That is when you choose which characteristic you will choose for yourself.
Although I am nice and do it not for personal gain, I know there are people out there who do. Some people do it to be better accepted into society, while others do it to take advantage of people. Our society can be very selfish at times and do things just for personal gain sometimes. Either way, it is not a trait that is given to you at birth. It is something you decide to do as you grow up.
To Amber: This blog made me realize just how many people in world that are truly good and nice people. Evelyn seems like the kind of person that can do no wrong, say nothing grotesque, vile, or self-serving. Although she may be an extreme version of kindness, I think that there are many more people out there that have the same general kindness (but less drastic) and each of them make the world a better place through their interactions with the ones closest to them.
ReplyDeleteIf I’m being honest, and why not?, the very first thing I
ReplyDeletethink when I read that quote, regardless of its accuracy or lack of, is that
this guy must be a jerk to people. Of course, he could also be right. I’m
pretty nice to most people. Even if I hate their guts and completely debase
them within my own mind or with my friends, I find it difficult to be mean to
people. Some people call that two-faced, I call it being polite. Why make
something an issue when it doesn’t need to be? Kill them with kindness and all
that. I will admit that it can sometimes
be hard to grit your teeth and pretend someone who gets on your last nerve is
simply another person. However I find it harder sometimes to be mean. There are
probably multiple reasons for this…life experiences, family stuff, how I was
raised, etc.
Of course, being nice is not always a chore. Sometimes it’s
just second nature, like holding the elevator or opening a door for someone
whose hands are occupied. Sometimes it just has to do with who you’re with.
When I’m with someone that I love, I don’t have to think about it. I treat them
nicely because I want to, because I care about their needs and wants and
desires and thoughts. I’ll look at them and become run over/ by those “warm,
fuzzy” feelings that just make me want to make their life better.
These are the people whose hair you’d hold back when they
are getting sick. Trust me when I say that doing this is of no personal gain
whatsoever, it’s definitely not something I’d do for just anyone. Of course at
this point it gets to wondering where to draw the line between being kind and
being caring. In my mind, there is
definitely a difference between the two, but as synonyms they overlap and
umbrella each other, so who really knows.
I absolutely, positively love this quote. I don't know much about Robert Greene, in fact I know nothing at all. So I applogize for my ignorance, but I cannot tell you how much I agree with him or how much I share my love for him with you. However, what I can tell you is I agree with your hatred for people. People always annoy me. I cannot spend more than an hour out of my house without wanting to put my foot down someones throat. I sometimes find myself to be a young, growing Red Forman from That 70's Show. I feel when I hit the age of maybe 40-45, I will be ready to kill anyone and everyone who just gets on my nerves.
ReplyDeleteOr maybe that's just the psychopath in me...
In any event, let's get started on this quote. The first part seems to mean the most to me, "Niceness is a decision." I've heard the word "niceness" thrown around in many different ways. I've seen it as a trait, as a decease, even as a cancer. However, I have never in my life seen it described as a decision. My first thoughts were, "Great, another quote I don't understand and have to just BS something" (not that I do that for this class at all). But then it came to me like a bolt of lightning jarring my brain into finally thinking the right way. People always decide to act nice to get something in return. They act nice, as to earn something in return. Whether that return be a smile, affection, material value, or anything else, that is up to the person being nice. But if you think about it, everyone is nice for a reason. There is no one who is just nice. It's a decision everyone makes.
If you think differently, you're wrong!
Now to the next part. "It's a strategy of social interaction". This one took a little more thought than the last. I came to conclude that people decide to be nice, as to come off as a better person. When you come off as a better person, more people will like you. So when you want to be nice, and have social interaction, you are nice. It makes sense when you think about it. I have the perfect example in my head of someone (who's name need not be said) who is the nicest person you will ever meet in your entire life. This person is kind, no matter what the circumstances. This person could be fuming mad, but you will never see it.
I hate this person.
I hate this person, because this person has a lot of people stick up for them. This person has friends who will always be there for them. This person couldn't have more pep in their step if they tried. I never really understood why I hated this person so much, but now I finally do. I realize now that I hate this person because of how much social attention they receive. It's almost a jealousy, but I would never admit to that. I have now come to realize that they get this social attention and recognition, because they have built up a reputation for him/herself of being so nice, so caring, so freaking peppy.
The final part of the quote seals the deal for me. "it is not a character trait." Simple enough right? That short little blurb of half of a sentence, made me understand the ignorance of everyone who has not seen this quote; mostly my own ignorance before seeing it. My eyes immediately opened to my past thoughts, and to my new way of thinking. It's interesting to think that my thoughts changed because of a two sentence quote. I realized that I have been looking at niceness as a character trait, and that I was utterly wrong. Even though during my first glance at this, I had no clue what he was saying, I knew that I was wrong in my thought process about niceness. I think what I'm trying to say is that this quote doesn't have much meaning behind it; it's straight forward. However, it was the final stamp to the persuasion behind the quote, which couldn't have worked better. I applaud his persuasion.
All in all, I have to give thanks to Robert Greene. I thank him for opening my eyes to a whole new way of thinking about niceness. No, I thank him for opening my eyes to the TRUTH about niceness. I thank him for helping me figure out why I hated that poor nice person, who deserves no hate (even though I still do). Finally, I thank Robert Greene for showing me the beginning to a very helpful technique of persuasion. I'm not sure exactly what he did, but I am sure that it worked, probably for most people reading this blog. I will get to the bottom of why this worked so well and use it for myself!
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes down to it, regardless of company I am almost
ReplyDeleteconstantly considering other people, doing things like never taking the last
soda, etc. As I’ve grown older, this has become a bit annoying to me, as other
people don’t seem to have this same characteristic. However, as they say, old
habits die hard. So I still take pause and consider the feelings of others,
even if it is now accompanied by a follow-up thought of “why should I show them
any consideration when they aren’t willing to do the same for me?” That, I
think, is why kindness is ultimately a decision. You have to put aside your own
feelings and put someone else’s needs/feelings first. This is obviously not an
easy feat, as we are essentially selfish creatures. Selfishness seems a
necessary characteristic to survive. However I also think that this decision is
made before you can fully grasp the impact of it. I’ve been “nice” for as long
as I can remember. Whenever I made this decision doesn’t stand out in the
tangled mass of my memories, but it is a decision I am still acting on. Maybe
it’s laziness on my part to say that I don’t see my kindness as something that
will be changing. Maybe it’s cynical to think that leopards don’t change their
spots. But I’ve discovered, that unless a person has the right motivation,
people as a whole are content to plateau at whomever they happen to be. Sure
they undergo small changes, but most people are too lazy or can’t find the time
or will or effort to go ahead and change something fundamental about
themselves.
I guess some people are going to try to tell me that I’m
insecure and I just want everyone’s approval because I don’t believe in being
mean, rude, or disrespectful to people, when all it really does is make them
feel bad and cause problems. I’d like to think of it as a combination of my
desire to avoid conflict and my sincere wish to show people that not everyone
is a jerk, and hope that they pay it forward. Maybe that makes me naïve, or
optimistic, or a hundred other things, but I can’t say that kindness has ever
brought me somewhere that I truly regret, so maybe being kind isn’t such a bad
thing.
George: I really respect that every week you post your
ReplyDeletecomplete honest opinion without censor, even if it is controversial. That being
said, while there were some points that I couldn’t help but agree with, I disagree
with almost everything you said. You definitely have a very cynical idea for
the reasons people are kind. I’d like to say that while what you say may be
true for some or even most people, I can tell you that I know of at least two
people who are genuinely nice to everyone, and I don’t see them as people who
would spend their lives, making so many sacrifices just for the sake of
painting themselves as a nice person.
Olivia: I really like what you said in your first paragraph
about people having a general disposition that varies in degree of kindness and
about how the tendency to be nice or kind is not present inside everyone. I agree
with a lot of what you said in your post, although I have to say, that if I went
off of my first impressions of everyone, I would have some skewed impressions
of some of my closest friends. People do change as you know them, so while
first impressions can often tell a lot, I wouldn’t place them as the end all be
all.
General Comment: It seems like everyone has taken this quote
and pretty much bashed niceness. I don’t think that being nice automatically
makes you fake, and even if you are faking it, why is that bad? Is it really
better to be mean or rude simply because you feel it is your right to treat
someone that way?
To Olivia: I have to say that I slightly disagree with you about first impressions. First impressions are very important things, but some people act differently under different circumstances. So if you were to meet someone around a group of adults in a professional setting, that person would act a lot differently than if you were to meet the same person on the street when they’re with a group of friends. Obviously if you were to meet a person and gain a bad first impression, then you probably won’t want to hang out with them much. If you meet a person that gives you a good first impression, then just make sure that you continue to monitor their actions later in different situations.
ReplyDeleteTo Rachel: Nice to see that someone has faith in humanity with me. There are obviously people who can put others in front of themselves. Just look at the reaction to 9/11 and Hurricane Katrina. I like what you stated about love, that is the epitome of cases in which true kindness from the heart can shine through.
To Dan: Bravo with that ending Dan, bravo! But seriously, I may think that there is more to argument here than you. However, it is pretty hard to disagree with what you said. I always thought you were a pretty nice guy and I would definitely stand up for you if someone were picking on you or trying to hurt you. So your tactic there is working. It is an approach that many people use, but don’t think that you are missing any genuine “niceness,” you have a big heart my friend.
Kendall: I think that the environment affects people and how their personality is. Yes there could be people that are genuinely nice, but they weren’t born that way, they are like that because of what they see and experience around them.
ReplyDeleteBecca: I wrote my blog and then started reading yours and realized we kind of have the same thing. Like about how niceness is taught to you rather than some kind of trait that you inherit. Do I even have to say that I completely agree with you?
Nyamekye: I don’t think that everyone in this world is nice just because they want something. I think there are some genuinely kind people out there. I’m sure that some people are nice just because they choose to be.
Ok this time I won't fall asleep and not do the comments.
ReplyDeleteNick T; I understand your feelings of having that irritable friend that wished the world would just be at peace now. I often wish the world were a better place now and I can envision this, however the difference is I can separate my world and reality and see the two for what they really are. I understand that what I want in the world won't just happen overnight even if I'm the nicest person around. In fact that while I'm living I won't see this world but it doesn't stop me from hoping.
Rachel F: Like that you said that as humans we are "perfectly imperfect". I think I heard that in a song or something. I also like that you told it as it is, people do suck, or is it the world we live in that sucks? Think about it with all the rules and laws that we have in the world, does that affect people and make them act like they do. Can we blame the rules of the world for our behavior? Ugh, I feel like "m being Ms. Bunje and asking to many hard questions. You already finished this blog so just gonna stop torturing you with questions.
Amanda L: I think you just provided the perfect example of being nice unconditionally. Ur bus driver sounds like a good person. My bus driver nods to me every day as a sign of respect and i gues he's being nice.
I can't tell you how many times a day I hear the term "two-faced" whether it be in school, on the bus, or on Facebook. I've always hated this term so much because there's no such thing as being two-faced, I believe it's called being mature and not acting like a child around the people you might not particularly like. Most people think it's immature by being "two-faced" but as I said up there, it's quite the opposite, it's being mature and being able to handle yourself and show self-control and self-discipline.
ReplyDeleteWith that being said, niceness isn't a character trait, it's a decision. People choose to be nice if they want to be. It's obvious that this is true because people all the time are "two-faced" and it's okay because they're choosing to be nice, because they're being the more mature person in the situation. I know really nice people, which actually tend to annoy me, I get really annoyed by exaggerated niceness...not going to mention any names. It's safe to say some people choose to be too nice.
I can go through my daily day without being personally mean to anybody's face, but of course I'm not a perfect angel, no way, no how. I'm mean, rude, snarky, sarcastic, overall I'm a horrible person, but to your face I'm usually going to be pretty nice. I choose to be nice, because by how I act behind everyone's back, I'm really not, I don't know about you guys, but that's good enough evidence to probe niceness is a decision and not a trait.
Cole: I feel like I always respond to your blog posts. But oh well, I also feel like I've said that before. But oh well. I'm being redundant. Deja vu. You're voice always shows through in your blogs, and I love that about them. I hope every orphan you have saved lives a fulfilling life.
ReplyDeleteNyamekye: I admire your bluntness in saying that you use kindness to get what you want. I think everyone does it, whether they want to admit it or not.
Thomas: I think your final point was what I was trying to get at the entire time. The pith of the matter is, people do to others what the want in return. We give kindness to receive kindness
Ashley- I have absolutely no problem being the guy who takes the last soda. You live for you, not anybody else. Whenever I eat with people, it's always "Garret, do you want that last piece?" or whatever it may be, because everyone knows, that I'll take it, that's just me...
ReplyDeleteNick- As you said so before in our last blog, you're polite to people you don't know or whatever b.s you were feeding us that day, well maybe that's exactly what the cash register is doing, they don't know you, so yeah they'll say have a nice day, I highly doubt when they mutter those words as you walk away, that their intent was a raise.
Bobby- I know exactly who you're talking about, and believe me, I feel the exact same way. I hate when people are too nice, it isn't being nice, it's being annoying and it completely masks any type of personality that might shine through. Some people worry too much about what other people think and not enough about themselves. Boom.
I can’t remember the last time someone called me “nice.” I get that I’m “mean” much more often, and I remember every time that the phrase “You’re mean” is said to me. In fact, last year one of my friends use to utter those two words to me nearly every time I talked to him. And he obviously wasn’t joking, because he would even complain about me being “mean”
ReplyDeletebehind my back. For a while, I was convinced that I was some horrible horrible person. But after a while those feelings faded and now I have no idea whether I’d be considered “mean” or “nice.” I know I’m not a jerk, yet that doesn’t satisfy me. It’d be nice to one day hear that I’m... well, nice.
That being said, I think that niceness is completely a choice. This is rather negative, but I can’t get myself to believe that there exists people out there who are naturally nice. People are nice because niceness reaps social benefits. If you are nice, people will find you easier to talk to and therefore find it easier to become your friend. When you’re nice, other people will want to be nice to you. On the other hand, if you’re mean, many people won’t want to talk to you and will be more inclined to be mean to you in return. Niceness is simply a social technique implemented so that it’s benefits can be garnered.
I remember one time a so-called friend of mine had a bit of a tantrum from a silly debate we and two other friends were involved in. She began to yell and curse at us, and she targeted mainly me because I’m the “soft” one. Obviously, she was being pretty darn mean to me. But I was nice. As she swore at us, I said pretty much nothing. My two “mean” friends, however, retaliated with some smart remarks. My friend was a huge jerk to me. Yet, the next day when I saw her, I apologised to her. I hadn’t even done anything, yet I apologized to the girl who was a complete ass to me the day before. (I regret this so much.) In this situation, I’d be considered very “nice.”
But why was I nice? Why didn’t I kick that bitch in the face or throw some expletives back at her? I know a bit of me on the inside wanted to do those things. But the reason why I was nice was because I wanted to stay on good terms with her. I wanted her to continue to talk to me and to be my friend. I was nice because I didn’t want to be disliked. If I wasn’t nice, she would be mean- or meaner to me. (Eventually, I stopped being so nice to her and we stopped being friends. I do not miss her presence at all.)
When people are nice, they are doing it with expectations of benefits, whether they realize it or not. Even if those benefits are unrealistic, nice people are still looking for them. (Like how I was nice in an attempt to benefit with a continuing friendship, even if my “friend” was obviously a huge jerk.) If no one cared about niceness, then people wouldn’t be nice.
All people are born liars. It’s our instinct to fabricate situations in order to get what we want, and we wouldn’t see a damn thing wrong with that if our parents hadn’t taught us that lying is bad. There’s some scientific study that confirms this, but I can’t find anything on it at the moment. Anyway, telling the truth is something we have to learn and accept and go against our instincts in the cause of it. In a way, our society functions like the exact opposite of the plot of the movie The Invention of Lying, in which Ricky Gervais’ character becomes the first person on Earth to tell a lie. And boy, does he use this newly found power to his advantage! If we all had the ability to lie without consequences, the human condition dictates that we would choose to do so. Which raises the question: why is telling the truth (and, in the process, being nice) so important in our society, anyway?
ReplyDeleteIf we’re preconditioned to lie, we’re also preconditioned to cheat, steal, and commit many other acts that fall into categories such as ‘sins’ and ‘felonies.’ So why be nice? The answer: progress. It is said that it is preferable to be loved rather than feared – this applies mainly to leaders. The opportunities which we as a human race can take advantage of by gaining each other’s trust are innumerable and invaluable. On top of all that, it’s much easier to tell the truth than it is to lie, especially in high-risk situations. Professional poker players spend years honing their bluffing skills – a fact which seems to negate every claim I’ve made so far. However, it makes sense once you think about it: to become a master at something, a person must practice. For the sake of comparison, it is also true that we are born with the innate instinct to breathe, yet Michael Phelps can surely hold his breath for a longer period of time than anyone in my class (and, if the rumors are true, he can take deeper bong hits as well). Why? Because practice makes perfect (this also applies to the weed thing).
All in all, we have to practice being nice just like we have to practice being mean. What it all comes down to is that there aren’t a lot of situations in life which necessitate negativity. And besides, wouldn’t we all rather be loved and have power than be feared and have power?
To Cole: Hilarious, have you saved an orphanage today? Well frankly I lose faith in humanity on a day to day basis, but agree that some people are worth it, they are not naturally nice, they chose to be, because friendship is a good experience. Like you, niceness makes things easier for me, maybe that’s what it’s for, who knows?
ReplyDeleteTo George: What you said has some substance to it. I don’t often go as far as telling off my grandparents, although I’ve come close on a few occasions, and I admit a disdain for many people and sometimes it must just come out. Niceness is a strategy to get through to other people and to manipulate them on occasions. It is to gain knowledge or something in return in these cases, and it’s all about attitude. Though niceness may in fact be a sham, the niceness we receive does feel good when it’s given to us.
To Tom: I enjoyed your categorization of niceness; it makes sense to me. Anyway, your anecdote about the dumbass in your history class is a good example about choosing to be kind. Perhaps kindness is really only completely forced when in the presence of intolerable people, and niceness shows through with more like minded people. Although I won’t budge about my assertion that niceness is always a choice. It is something to definitely think about.
Cole: Being a nice person doesn't mean getting recognition - in fact, they say most good deeds go unnoticed. When someone does something they perceive to be 'good,' they are simply performing an exercise in morals. "What are the pros and cons of saving these orphans from the fire? On one hand, I'll be preventing dozens of unnecessary deaths, but on the other hand..." The moral situation is usually so volatile, as is the one in question, that the orphans usually end up winning out. Damn orphans.
ReplyDeleteGeorge: I always love your posts. I think I've said that before, but yeah. You always tell it how it is, and you are always straight forward. I love the "shut up" line, because that's exactly how I feel, and I think it adds so much to your writing. It makes me follow your thought process a lot easier and more clearly. I also like the whole idea of breaking up the quote (which is why I kind of stole it). Thanks!
ReplyDeleteConnie: I really like how you went a different direction with this whole thing. It's always so easy to agree with what Bunj says. It's almost scary to disagree. It takes guts kid, and you got 'em. I like the way you approach the questions. Just throwing all this out there.
Garret: I think you misunderstood me. I don't think people hide underneath the niceness, I think it overcomes them and becomes who they are. I don't hate them out of hatred, but more out of jealousy because of the social attention they receive for being nice. Which, coincidentally, is exactly what Greene says people are nice for. It's a social tool, and being an easily jealous person, who always wants the spotlight on him, that doesn't fly with me. So no, it's not annoying to me, per-say, but more frustrating that they get away with it.
Garret: I'd like to think I act generally the same at home as I do in school and around my friends. However, this is obviously not true. I act very variably around certain sets of friends, but that doesn't mean I'm two-faced in any sense of the term. I have "modes." When I'm with Schuyler and Co., I go into Sarcastic Mode. When I'm with my friend Allen, I descend into Party Mode. Everyone has their individual experiences that don't translate well from one situation to another, and on that note I agree with you.
ReplyDeleteAshley H.: Being honest is good, and being nice as second nature is a trait you don't find in many people. Like I've said: we all act differently around different people - to an extent. You might be less inclined to hold the door for your enemy than for your friend, but sometimes you've just gotta hold the door and be the better (wo)man. If some people can't deal with being nice on a daily basis, then that's a problem they're going to have to deal with later in life. In the meantime, keep holding those doors and good luck will eventually find its way to you!
ReplyDeleteTom: I like how you classified niceness into three types. I think these three categories define niceness perfectly. I think forced kindness is the most common type- which is kind of unfortunate. But as you said, this is because people are nice so that people are nice in return, which is something I also mentioned in my post.
ReplyDeleteGarret: I get annoyed by overly nice people too. This probably sounds bad, but I think I tend to act meaner to people who are ridiculously nice because of how much they annoy me. I think people are nice for the benefits of it, so I feel that people who are overly nice are trying too hard to get the approval of others.
Becca: Although I agree with you that niceness isn’t a trait, I find it interesting how our two blog posts differed by a lot. You have good points, and your argument is very convincing. I really liked the comparison of niceness with hair color.
To say that “Niceness is a decision.” would be true, I suppose, but I disagree with the some of the inherent cynical attitudes that accompany that statement. The fact that niceness is a decision doesn't take away from the merits of being nice, it adds to them, because it indicates that someone is defying their inner suckiness in order to better the rest of humanity.
ReplyDeleteAs much as I would love to write about how people simply suck, I don't think I could live with thinking that was entirely true. So, revised: People will suck if you give them the opportunity to do so. Politicians will subvert morality, make insider deals and accept bribes under the guise of “campaign contributions if you let them. Police will beat the living shit out of innocent protestors if you give them riot gear and a military attitude. Why does the Geneva convention exist? Why are ethics laws necessary? Because if people are allowed to suck, they will, and the only saving grace is that every so often someone who sucks a little less will realize, “this is wrong,” and draft up some real, morally and ethically motivated rules on what does and does not suck.
Accompanying these rules however, is the inherent fallacy that “legal” and “moral” are the same thing. Which leads me to a tenant that I live by which I can't remember if I mentioned in my creed and I don't feel like checking, this tenant is question everything. I should repeat that, in case someone missed it, question everything. Take care to evaluate things by your own moral compass, not the one society hands to you saying, “Take this, it's dangerous to go alone.” All that matters is a careful and meaningful evaluation of what is accepted.
Personally, I would have to admit my own suckiness. Confession time if you will, a lot of times it's easier to move along with the flow or whatever than to fight a tide. I will go to Chick-Fil-A despite knowing that they give millions to interest groups that believe homosexuality is a sin. (Damn those tasty-chicken-making bastards!) Sometimes it's just easier not to fight, if I were clever, I would call it picking my battles, but it's more like I don't have the time or energy to fight every injustice ever
This blog response feels all over the place (it could be worse, I had a whole rant about the Protect IP law that I deleted because that protest is too mainstream now), so to refocus and wrap up; given the choice, I will choose niceness. By nice I don't mean happy-smile-at-everyone-be-agreeable, I mean stand up for what's good for everyone, not just yourself. Niceness can be a subversive strategy, but it can also be a genuine and sincere attempt to help better the world, and the choice of that kind of niceness is what lifts humanity from its inherent suckiness.
Matt: Nothing like a little social Darwinism! Maybe I'm just more cynical, but I'd argue that it's the subconscious where the suckiness originates, and the conscious that makes the decision to fight it. Although, the most dangerous people are those who consciously seek to destroy others, we call them psychopaths.
Amber: I always felt, “wholeheartedly” if you will, that your speech was about 50 million times better than mine. I just spurted a load of idiocy onto a paper that I thought sounded motivational, you wrote actually wrote something. Anyway, eighth grade you and I would probably agree on some points of human nature. However, I agree more with your current more optimistic view, because niceness may be a choice, but most people make that choice.
Dan: Shut up, you are the NICEST guy Dan, I really honestly cannot think of anyone else nicer, believe me, I'm trying. And niceness is useful, we all use it, everyday, its an important part of functioning as a society and it keeps us from murdering each other while we sleep.
I believe I've said it before in a previous blog post that you don't need to respect someone in order to be respectful towards them. I feel that the same notion can be applied to "being nice" and that they do, in fact, go hand in hand.
ReplyDeleteOver the summer, in July, band started.
Okay, so before I get into that let me just say that I love marching band. I love the sound and intensity and discipline and especially the colorguard aspect of marching band. If there were a way to live my life through marching band, I would chose that path in a heartbeat.
I love marching band. I hate Oakcrest's band. I actually auditioned last November to be in Jersey Surf, which is an actual drum corp (I know very few of you know what that is.) Unfortunately, I didn't have enough money to participate, so I'm stuck with the good ol' OA Marching Ambassadors.
So I show up at Oakcrest in July, not expecting a whole lot out of the year, but there is one thing I was anticipating, and that was becoming colorguard captain. After our captain's lackluster leadership abilities the previous year, and everyone's remarks last year about how I was the best choice, I pretty much figured it was a done deal, accepted by everyone. Now, if I hate Oakcrest's band, why would I want to be captain? See, the only way I could stand being in colorguard was to be captain, because then I'm not in it for the band so much. I'm in it for the routine and the performance, and the competitiveness. By being captain I had the control to create the kind of guard I would want to participate in.
I did end up getting captain, but when it happened it was pretty bittersweet. I had originally thought that everyone wanted me to be captain, and acknowledged that it was best for the group. I was sorely mistaken. Two other girls were expecting to get captain (despite their complete lack of qualification for the position) and since neither of them got it, joined with the other against me.
And this is why I hate Oakcrest Band.
What made me exetremely mad though, is that one of their arguments was that I was "too nice" to be captain. Upon hearing that, I completely freaked out. At that point in time, I really didn't like anyone in guard, and barely anyone in band. Did they expect me to show that though? No, because then I'd be considered a bitch, which is just as bad. I am not too nice, I just don't like unnecessary, immature, high school "drama" and therefore I prefer to be cordial with everyone, or at least try to be.
I could totally freak out on everyone all the time and tell them how I really feel, but what's the point? I chose to be nice, and ultimately avoid stressful situations.
I know that nice is a choice, because when it comes down to it, I'm really not that nice of a person. I can be compassionate and caring, but nice isn't really the best way to describe me, it really is just a way for me to handle all the distasteful people I find myself having to deal with on a daily basis.
Patrick: Lots of people said kind of the same thing, but yours stuck out to me, about how you immediately wanted to say it was a character trait, and that being nice is who you are. I found this kind of shocking, that so many people went to that, but then I thought about you as a person and realized that I would consider you a "nice person". Not a person who "acts nice" but that you are a genuinely nice person, and so just thinking about you and hearing you in your blog post kind of helped me answer my own question, so thanks.
ReplyDeleteNick Murphy: I found myself frowning at the opening of your post. "All people are born liars." I know you say there's a scientific study to prove it, but I can't help but doubt the legitimacy of that until I see the study itself. I like to think that humans are at their purest when they were young (just as Thoreau states " have always been regretting that I was not as wise as the day I was born.") And that it is society the corrupts them, but I guess that goes along with your point still that it is society that creates the need for niceness. Contrarily though, I believe that without society maybe niceness would be character trait.
Ashley: I laughed out loud at your opening sentences because I totally identified with Greene's quote, and I do find myself being a jerk to people... at least in my head a lot of the time, but also in reality too. So yeah, you're probably right.
Dom:
ReplyDeleteI've noticed whenever I'm over your house that your mom is really nice. Like REALLY nice. I always thought she just acted that way because you had company, like any good host would, but I didn't realize that she's like that all the time. That would annoy me too. I find it so irritating when I'm in an everything-sucks-and-I-hate-people-so-much mood, and someone keeps thrusting their positive attitude at me. Sometimes being nice isn't appropriate for the situation at hand. Sometimes we have to think in a less sympathetic way in order to maintain the vital balance between optimism and pessimism. Maybe niceness is a trait. Maybe it's not. Either way, it's not always the best response.
So I have a separate comment for Cole and George because it's not so much reflection on your guys' post, but basically saying that they were, in my opinion, the most well written blog posts at least of this week and if either of you would like to get married I'm totally up for it.
ReplyDelete(Okay, yes, that's creepy. Sorry. But I'm a little wee bit kind of serious.)
I hate the word “nice.” It is so bland and broad. What is being nice? Am I nice? Only one person in my mind fits the description of being genuinely a nice person, and that person is my mother. She truly has a kind heart, and with every word she speaks and every action she makes comes from this personal trait. I definitely agree with Greene that niceness is a decision, but for my mom its not. She’s nice all the time for no reason at all, except that it is an imbedded character trait from the ways of my grandparents and her own interpretation of how to deal with her surroundings. It becomes a character trait when there isn’t one mean bone in my mother’s body. She tries to yell or sound mean, it fails horribly. She tries to sound demanding, and it back fires. Sorry to say it, but sometimes nice people tend to get taken advantage of. They cannot help the fact that they’re nice, sad story.
ReplyDeleteIn Greene’s view, most people probably fit into the category of using niceness as a strategy of social interaction. I talk to people who pretend to be nice everyday, knowing that all they really want to be is rude and obnoxious. But the fact is if you act nice, the niceness is usually reciprocated. In my personal experiences, I’ve found that being nice is easier than being mean. Why make someone else unhappy when you could simply be friendly? It’s a win-win situation. These blogs often aid in my understanding of self-discovery and today I tried to break myself apart. I feel like sometimes I can be nice out of decision and strategy and other times niceness is just something that I do simply because. I should ask more people if they think I’m a nice person, because after this question I’m a little unsure.
All I know for a fact is that some rare beings out in the crazy world are nice because it is a character trait, not because it is a method of interaction. I guess this trait wouldn’t be genetic because my mother and I are nothing alike. But hey, maybe I could learn a lesson or two from her sweet ways and beautiful heart.
This quote is definitely ambiguous. Whether you agree and disagree on it is your opinion. I'm not quite sure if I agree or disagree. I believe most people are nice only when they need something. They only care when it benefits them. I tend to do this a lot. I also am nice to people for no reason. It seems to be a random thing with me. I guess it's based on my opinion of different people.
ReplyDeleteI know A LOT of people who are nice to me whenever they need someone. I get to the point eventually where someone is like, "Hiiiii Mikey, my bestest friend!!" And I say, "What do you want??" I know they are just talking to me because they want something. A whole bunch of people text me whenever then need something. They don't talk to me just to say hi or anything... just when they need something. Now I'm not saying that everyone is like this. Some people are selfless in this world. These people give and don't even consider getting anything in return. These people lend money and don't care if they are paid back. That wouldn't be lending it would be giving. These people give. They have this characteristic of being nice that doesn't seem to ever go away. They were born nice. I admit, I am selfish all the time. I also believe in random acts of kindness. I like being nice to people when they appreciate it and deserve it. If they don't appreciate it, then they shouldn't expect my kindness again. Niceness IS a decision. It's the decision on whether or not you are going to be nice to someone or not.
(RUNNING OUT OF TIME!!! 1 MINUTE!!!)
Uhhh.... uhhhh.... crap. Can't think. Should of did it at school. SCHUYLER WHY?!?!?!?! He's 80... and 12:00...
This question inspired a couple of responses to me when I first saw it.
ReplyDelete'Gandhi was a nice guy,' I think. 'And so was Jesus. I can think of some people like them' And, I'm sure, so can you.
But on closer inspection, that's not what the question asks at all. It doesn't matter if people are nice, he says. But he says that nobody is nice INHERENTLY. So now, the question is, were Gandhi and Jesus nice INHERENTLY? If you can prove that Gandhi was nice just because he was nice, then you win. ... Right?
So was Gandhi nice just because it helped him get what he wanted? DID it help him get what he wanted? Certainly his doctrine of Civil Disobedience was based on 'being nice', but did that draw from Gandhi or the other way around. Certainly people were attracted to him for being nice, but would they still have joined him if he was stoic, and kind of a hardass? I believe, to a certain point, the answer would be 'yes'.
But this is a tangent that's leading nowhere, so let me put it as simply as I can. I believe that, on the whole, the speaker is right, and people use niceness a lot of the time for personal gain. But, on the other hand, I think he pushes it to the extreme. I think there are times when people can be genuinely nice, if only for a little while, though of course you get those rare aberrations like Gandhi who are nice almost all the time.
But of course, I like to think I can be nice. I like to think I AM nice a lot of the time.
But us that just another strategy? This time, to deceive myself?